Standing Your Ground | Joey Van Koningsbruggen

Bart Bradshaw: (00:26)

Hey builders. Today we’re going international Joey Van Koningsbruggen and wanted to healthy fast food alternative, which prompted him to start Jimmy Joy out of his dorm in Amsterdam five years later and it’s now a global company reeling in revenue of $6 million annually. That said, the journey hasn’t been an easy one. Joey almost lost his company to a business partner when he expanded to America. Today he talks to us about that struggle as well as what he’s doing to rebuild Jimmy Joy to stay hint, it might include drinking his shakes every day. Hey Joey, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having me. So let’s take it back to the beginning. What were you studying when you started Jimmy Joy?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (01:12)

Oh, I was studying media marketing. I was really into art and figured, since I’m going to do art anyway, I might as well just study something that’s commercial so that I, will be able to sell my art.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (01:26)

Okay. Where’d you go from there? Did you start Jimmy Joy right out of, uh, studying media art?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (01:32)

Yeah, it was, it was my last year in that study and I was a bit bored with it and, um, I just started making paintings and selling them and producing my expenses in order to, uh, be, an autonomous artists from the start. And um,

 

Bart Bradshaw: (01:53)

how was that going? Was that, you know, you always hear the term starving artist. Did they, what did it feel like that?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (02:01)

Um, no, it didn’t feel like that at all. Um, even though it was true because I didn’t have a lot of money to spend, but I really liked what I was doing. So it doesn’t feel like poverty if what you’re doing is what you want to be doing.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (02:19)

Yeah. That’s fantastic. Okay. So you’re, you’re doing art out of your dorm room and selling it. And you’re finding a way to kind of start to actually make some revenue in that. Yeah. And then you started a healthy fast food alternative company. What’s that? What’s that evolution? What happened?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (02:46)

Yeah, I was really fed up with the, well, not really, but I just found it irritating to have to stop my work because sometimes when I’m creating the, I would get into the flow of things, you know, and it would just feel like an interruption to have to go to the supermarket and have to choose some food and prepare and do the dishes and everything that’s associated with food. So I really liked the idea of, uh, of having fast food. But the thing with fast food is that it’s usually very unhealthy and you notice that in your level of energy during the day. Right. So I started making shakes that tasted horrible, but, uh, had like everything in it that I thought with grandma’s knowledge that is healthy. So, uh, it had eggs and spinach and um, nuts. And um, they said they’re terrible. All in one to shake.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (03:49)

Yeah. Yeah. It was horrible. But it worked. We just had that in the fridge. And my roommate, uh, used it to, we called it a Popeye grass. Popeye grass, nice. Yeah, they kinda, they kinda worked. And uh, later I’ve decided to, um, do the same thing but with a more scientific approach. So actually investigate what is, uh, what are the nutrients that you need during a day and uh, what ingredients contain those. And uh, that’s how I professionalized it in part because I wanted to do something with the video and I thought it would be cool to live off of my recipe for an entire month and uh, and make a video blog about that.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (04:37)

So you actually, so it didn’t taste good, but you liked it, it was healthy, um, and it, and it made it so that you didn’t have to go to the supermarket or really disrupt your work and you were like, Hey, this is something I can play with. It’s something that I can learn more about, improve and also create a video showing you, I mean, at the time were you thinking with this video that this is like the start of something.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (05:07)

No, not at all. Well, I wasn’t, intending to make a company out of it. It’s just that I started making a video in 2014 about it and then my friends were as excited as my roommate was and they asked me if I could make it for them too. There was already like the one weekend, the experiment of, of recording, uh, the video and uh, doing the, the diets like, like 100% and then their friends wanted it too and that’s how it spiraled out of control. And already I made, um, I think, uh, somewhere around the 2000 to 3000 euros in revenue in the, in the first month that I started doing it.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (05:56)

Interesting. Did it still taste bad?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (05:58)

Back then? Yeah, definitely tasted bad. It was like sandpaper in your throat. It was not only the taste, the texture is horrible too. Yeah. But it’s fine if you, you can have a lower bar. If something’s for yourself, then if something is used while you’re going to have the low bar, it’s still like a fun experiment that which your friends do. But if, if the friends of your friends that you don’t really know are going to order from you, then you feel a real pressure to enhance the product. So I started looking into all sorts of ways to actually make the whole experience more pleasurable.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (06:42)

That makes sense. Um, when it comes to alternatives, like was it really, there was nothing on the market that seemed like, you know, a good quick healthy snack or something. Like how did, how did this compare to other shakes or other bars or things, you know, that were already available?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (07:03)

Yeah, it’s nutritionally complete. So no, there weren’t other shakes on the market, um, that were nutritionally complete then. Uh, so that’s how it, uh, how it is different from, uh, like a shake, uh, to lose weight. Also, those shakes aren’t very cost effective either. They’re, they’re quite expensive and yeah, they give you less energy than you need during the day because they’re aimed at weight loss. Hmm.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (07:35)

Okay. So they’re more supplemental weight loss. You have to have a full meal or something at some point in the day and they’re more like get you through breakfast and lunch or, or something like that. Whereas this is like, Hey, this is a full meal that you can rely on or you don’t have to have other meals is what you’re saying like this, this is complete.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (08:00)

Yes, it’s complete. It has all the nutrients down to a science. So a lot was all the omegas and the fatty acids and the fibers and all the vitamins and minerals. They’re all what is recommended by the world health organization or the FDA or the European food safety authority.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (08:22)

So did you actually go a whole month just eating Jimmy Joy and at the time were you calling it Jimmy Joy ?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (08:29)

Um, no, I it was called Joey Lent back then. Oh yeah. L. E. M. S. no. L. E. N. T. Joey is my name. And L. E. N. T. that was how it started, but it felt, um, uh, that was how I was selling it to my friends. But it felt kind of silly selling that to people. I don’t know, narcissistic sort

 

Bart Bradshaw: (08:56)

of have to Jimmy Joy. Okay. And so tell me about the time when you basically just ate Joey Lent.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (09:05)

Oh yeah. That first month I just went for it and did an entire month and um, after that I didn’t really feel like going back to not eating. It just felt really suitable for my lifestyle then, especially since I got very busy because it was very labor intensive back then to create it because I used to buy all the different ingredients separately and measured it all by hand and different brands of like different densities of the nutrients. So then I would have to calculate per brand how much I should put in. And I kept on needing more than different brands because the stores ran out on the amount I needed from them because I was just buying it in shops around the, around my house and uh, in, in Amsterdam. Yeah. So that was a real, real busy time. And if you’re busy, it’s, it’s a, it’s very handy. The product is very handy for when you’re busy.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (10:05)

Right. And you were busy with both the product, but also you were still doing your paintings.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (10:12)

Um, yeah. Well, no, not really. Actually I didn’t have any time for that at that point.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (10:17)

Okay. So you were just focused on, uh, Jimmy Joy. Yeah. Okay, cool. And so you at this point, you know, after your friends and your friends’ friends and you made a few thousand dollars that first month where you’re like, okay, this is a thing. I’m gonna, I’m gonna go after this.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (10:38)

Uh, yeah. I, I made my own webshop and then, um, yeah, it was, it was still a kind of like a joke in the, in the third week. And, uh, the website I made was quite silly, but the friend of mine works, uh, for Vice, Vice Media. He decided to, uh, write an article about, about me and my, uh, product and um, that got so much traction that it was a, if an article does well on Vice Media they offer it to all the other vice’s. On the, uh, in the world and, uh, yeah, my, my story got translated the world over. So all of the sudden this, this crappy website I made ’em got thousands and thousands of visitors I wanted that all wanted me to make some of, uh, the those shakes for them. So that’s why when I really thought, Oh wow, this is, I’m gonna have to hire my roommate and we have to refurbish the apartment, uh, into a, a production place. I hired two friends, uh, besides debts to also come and work in my apartment to actually scale up the production.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (11:58)

Okay. So this is something that, um, most startups really want. Right? It was some sort of exposure that just make sales go crazy. First off, you had a friend who worked at vice, this was just like one of your friends, like he heard what you were doing, she or he and came to you and was like, this is interesting. This could be a good story. Or did you have to like plant that at all or like how did that happen?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (12:25)

That happened organically. Um, I had a story website that published original erotic stories. I intended to roll it out into the English language and call it textual healing, but I never got to, and that’s how I knew a writer in Holland that has a large following on social media, a famous a writer. And he was the first one actually to pick up on the story and he started ordering it from me and said, Hey man, if you think it’s interesting and this is something that you want to do, I could share it around my friends and post about it so that you get some traction. But that was the first reaction. And then another friend who also followed my YouTube channel, which were like a 100 people back then, he was the, uh, one for working for Vice. And then, uh, he wrote a article about it and the toe. And all that happened organically and, um, with my, uh, social circle and not, uh, not a PR activity from myself.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (13:27)

Yeah. Okay. So that’s, that’s cool. You were, you were doing things, you were connected to some extent, and those connections, um, took you even farther and it was organic. I love it. Okay. So then you had tons of people coming to the website, you were like, Oh boy. Um, I wasn’t really prepared for that much. Is that how you were feeling? Like I hadn’t created this website to get worldwide exposure?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (13:56)

No, not at all. I didn’t even start the experiment to start a company from it. So yeah, it was very mind blowing at that point, especially since it was very hard to produce. So at one point I even had a table over my, uh, bed where I produced and stuff would get powder, would get into my bed. And then I started looking for companies who could, um, actually supplied, uh, the ingredients to the amount that I needed. And they would call me like, are you sure this is the right address? Because I lived in the center of Amsterdam, quite narrow streets. And then I would order a pallet of stuff and tell them just to leave it out on the streets. And then I would walk up and down the stairs with a 25 kilo grams of bags of oats for example.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (14:48)

Yeah, you didn’t have a warehouse or where it’s easy to drop off. Um, okay. So, so then you started, you basically started building a little company, a little process, a system. I say little the thing that’s little probably is your dorm room. It sounds like there was some pretty significant demand and you were trying to keep up. What did you do from there?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (15:12)

I um, sold the 30% of my stock equity to a guy that was an entrepreneur and had a small warehouse and a promise to do to production side of things. So I would do the supply chain side of things and uh, uh, website and customer care and, and everything else.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (15:38)

Okay. So you were, you decided you needed a warehouse, you partnered with somebody, sold some equity. When it comes to like momentum, sometimes you get kind of a, a boost like you did and then you know, crickets. Um, is that how it was or did you actually like keep getting more and more attention? Keep getting more and more demand.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (16:06)

Yeah. The ladder. It was very a, it’s a product that, um, when people use it, they tend to um, come back or use it, uh, some several occasions during the week. So there was a low retention and product or high retention. Um, I’m not sure if that, they don’t, uh, leave us. I mean retention, right. Sorry. No, that’s good. Don’t, don’t be sorry for high retention. I’m just sorry for my level of English. Um, and um, one other thing that’s, um, typical is that the media really liked the angle of is this the end of food? So they kept on coming with requests on writing up the story, which basically was the same story that my friend on Vice already wrote. But then on their platform,

 

Bart Bradshaw: (17:12)

yeah, we hear that a lot. That someone gets some initial attention from some publication, some media outlet, and then everyone else kind of hops on that because it, it’s proven, you know, if it gets a lot of attention in one place, it’ll probably get a lot of attention in others. And so it’s a low risk and a easy way to, um, attract those, that attention and, and give people what they want, which is a good story. So that’s interesting. That’s how it worked for you too.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (17:41)

Yeah, that’s precisely our journalism, right. Works in my experience too.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (17:46)

And it’s fantastic. Everyone wants this, a product that people want to come back for. So there’s high retention as well as a business story that is just compelling. You know, it sounds like it was compelling because this is potentially the end of food. This is like the future. Everyone just eats something that’s the right nutrition at this point. It was the taste good.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (18:14)

Uh, yeah, it was much better. I partnered up with the company that produced whey shakes and uh, they, um, to get with them, I, I really, um, improve the flavoring.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (18:27)

Did you have to make any compromises to make it taste better? Like nutritional compromises?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (18:34)

Mm, no, no, that’s kinda like the promise of the product and of the company. I mean, and also what I like about the product is that basically all other products, if you go to a supermarket are taste first and health second. And where health first nutrition is the most important thing about the product. So, um, yeah, so, so this is not, it’s not as as an important, so, so we wouldn’t, um, sacrifice, uh, health for taste.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (19:09)

Got it. So you were able to add some small things that made it tastes better? Is that how that worked? I’m sure it’s more complicated than that.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (19:17)

Um, yeah. I used to use a pea protein, but it was very sour on the, on the harsh in the throat and, uh, there wasn’t any flavoring back then. So I partnered up with a, a party to investigate how we could get accurate milkshake flavors. So I bought flash dried bananas and flash dried strawberries and added, uh, artificial flavoring to the natural ingredient and then added that to the product so that, that helped a lot to get a natural milkshake light feel and swapping out pea protein, uh, did a lot for the texture.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (19:57)

Okay. That makes sense. Okay. So now you’re in a warehouse and you’re still getting a lot of exposure globally, it sounds like. Um, did you have challenges with scaling up to meet that demand?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (20:15)

Uh, yeah, that was a lot of, um, issues, uh, to scale up the production. I started working with a company that also makes a baby food and to get it with them. Uh, I um, build, uh, a custom micro nutrient mix. So that drastically, uh, reduced the labor we had to put in to make one shake because we went from 18 to five ingredients. Oh wow. Yeah, that, that, that helped a lot. Um, but, but even then it was a constant battle of um, scaling up the production to the demand that was increasing. And for almost two years there was a backlog and we didn’t really manage to get the backlog, um, below two weeks. But also they, uh, had it, uh, rise to above four weeks. So it kinda was, that’s how we financed the two because it was self finance. No one brought in any capital. I didn’t, I certainly didn’t had any, uh, back then. So, um, it was really about taking the, the, the capital from, uh, customers and investing that into larger and larger stock and being able to produce that using better and better, uh, mixing devices, machines.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (21:35)

Yeah. So did you buy your own machinery and put it in the warehouse? Have everything created in house?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (21:43)

Yeah. Yeah. We still do that now. Now we have a production, uh, the space that we invested that 200,000 euros in machinery into automate the majority of the process that when we gradually, uh, work towards that.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (22:03)

Did you consider raising capital or did you just not even really think of it?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (22:08)

Um, yeah, I was, uh, considering it, but um, um, well yeah, well I got into a legal battle with my, uh, former business partner. So that kinda like setback the whole, um, company as a whole. And also the ambition to, uh, hold the possibility really to attract venture capital.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (22:33)

This was the person that you sold 30% equity to? Yeah. And who owned the warehouse? Yeah. So can you tell us more about that or is it like you have to be mum’s the word on, on the legal battle?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (22:48)

Uh, no, it’s already concluded. Uh, but it took, uh, two years, uh, at one point now I really wanted it to, it went really well in Europe and really wanted it to expand into the United States. You’re talking about Jimmy Joy, not the legal battle. Yeah. I’m just talking about the company. Yeah. Okay, good. So I, I discussed that with a legal advisor and uh, she told me that it’s handy to create a new entity from which to do you the United States. So, uh, because, but it could be claims in the United States and that that’s a method to like protect yourself from that to have, have it like in a separate entity. So I did that. Um, but I discuss it with my partner only loosely because I trusted him. So I just said, Hey, this is the idea. I’m going to resign here and then going to start the other venture.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (23:48)

I’m going to make you the owner to the same amount in the audit venture. And the other venture is going to do the United States and since, uh, Europe is already like I’m running. So it’s, it’s like more of a managerial function and less of an entrepreneurial one. I think it’s, it’s good if you do that. And then I go to the States and I, I try and grow the company in, in, in the United States and, uh, well, yeah, he agreed upon that, but I, I didn’t write that agreement down and, um, that was, uh, that was a stupid, stupid mistake from me. Gotcha. So does that mean he basically tried to take over the company in the, in, in Europe? Yeah. Yeah. What he did is he started a nother company and dad did distribution in Holland and he basically charge ridiculous prices on Jimmy Joy to distribute baggage’s in Holland.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (24:45)

And he raised his own salary and he cut mine. So I was like suddenly out of a monthly salary and he, um, basically a reason that the former salary there was allocated to management. Now she’d go completely to him because he was the manager. Okay. So how did the legal battle conclude? Uh, well, yeah, it took, uh, two years and, uh, all of my savings. Um, yeah, it is. Yeah. They come and the company was as of two years also, uh, yet, and it’s concluded in that he, um, offered me to buy his stock. So we, uh, agreed upon a price in a, in a mediation agreement, a compensation agreement. Yeah. And then, uh, I, uh, to took a bank loan and, uh, bought his stocks and now I’m a 100% owner of the company again, which has to feel good but a little bit difficult to swallow in some ways.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (25:55)

I’m sure. Yeah. It’s very nice to be back, but it’s, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of difficult if you think about what could have been if I was just kept on at that base we were at back then because I’m under his lead. The company fell in like 30% in revenue in the first year and, uh, 18% in the second year. So we went from a high growing, exciting company through like a declining one. So yeah. And it says growth on growth is exponential. That really has a big impact. If you think about it, right? Yeah. Huge. Okay, makes sense. So you finally get out of this legal battle, you

 

Bart Bradshaw: (26:44)

own 100%. How do you put it back on track? How do you grow again, like you were at first?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (26:52)

Um, yeah, so I am now back for three quarters of a, well, no, almost the entire year. Yeah. Basically just staying true to the original mission, which is the, to create the healthiest meal that is possible and build up the marketing team and yeah, basically R and D and marketing is the main focus, uh, was the main focus now. And I’m doing the localization in a, in America. So setting up a local fulfillment, local website, um, have, have enough stock there to actually fulfill and have next day delivery and a majority. So we have local film and uh, in Los Angeles and New York to, uh, which are our main markets. So we have quick delivery.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (27:44)

You’re doing about 6 million in annual revenue right now. Yeah. So you, you continue to manufacture or make the, uh, the product in Amsterdam?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (27:56)

Uh, yeah. We produced the shakes. So we have shakes, bars and drinks, and we produce the shakes in a, in Amsterdam and the bars in, uh, the UK and the drinks in Germany.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (28:11)

Okay. So are those different locations because you’ve started to outsource that or you have your own location, you have your own warehouses in those locations?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (28:21)

No, no, those are our country manufacturers, so we only produce the shake, uh, ourselves and, uh, the bars and the, and the drinks are outsourced.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (28:30)

Got it. Um, are you completely direct to consumer?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (28:34)

almost. We sell to the biggest supermarket in Holland and a smaller chains, but mostly it’s a BPC on the web shop. Yeah.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (28:46)

Can you give us a feel for what works the best for you to advertise, market and distribute.

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (28:55)

uh, yeah, we made it real easy for new customers to try out, uh, our whole assortment. So we made a starter box that’s, uh, that’s specifically designed that you get a new customers. And, uh, we run, uh, ads on Google and Facebook, so nothing, nothing really new. Uh, there are all eCommerce businesses do that.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (29:18)

Yeah. So Google and Facebook ads. Um, tell us more about your customer retention. Do you do things to like package deals or pricing deals or subscription deals? Anything that you kind of try to keep people or get referrals or anything like that?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (29:39)

Yeah, we have a, the whole, um, the whole journey, um, that customers can take, they can subscribe for a 15% discount and we’re very liberal with how they arrange their subscription. They can pause at any time and add flavors, uh, and change delivery date. So it’s really flexible. And, uh, when they’re loyal, they make several purchase. We give them a time tokens, which is our loyalty program and they can swap that for, uh, gifts or discounts. And if they refer friends, then, uh, they both get ten euros off.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (30:23)

Okay. Does that work well for you?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (30:26)

Yeah, yeah, that works well. People really like the part of the loyalty program whereby they get a tee shirt for example, or they can focus on what flavor we have to make next. And, uh, it’s also a product that’s, word of mouth is a big thing for us. So the refer friends is, um, is, is, is, an important in factor in that too,

 

Bart Bradshaw: (30:51)

is that a as big a growth driver as for example, your paid advertising?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (30:57)

No, it’s bigger the word of mouth is bigger.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (31:00)

That’s where everyone wants to be, right. Cause it’s much less expensive too, um, so how do you get to the next level? What takes a Jimmy Joy to, you know, from 6 million in revenue to 10 million or 20 million. Have you, have you kind of thought through that? Like where to put your advertising dollars, where to focus your attention on growth?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (31:24)

Yeah, that’s, that’s a good question. And kind of relates to the earlier thing you said. It’s, it’s, it’s nice to have a main growth from word of mouth, but it’s not as scalable, obviously a spade. So the goal is to attract, uh, to sell the stocks that are just bought back to a venture capitalist and use that to, uh, expand the markets that we’re in and the, especially the penetration of the markets that we’re in, uh, besides the, uh, broadening, uh, the products, more flavors and product range.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (32:01)

Okay. So you’re actually planning to expand and accelerate growth through raising capital. Yeah. And then focusing that on, did you say focusing that on expansion through marketing and advertising and not necessarily broadening your scope of products? Or are you saying both?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (32:19)

Yeah, I’m saying I’m sayng both, especially more flavors of the product that we already have and we already have a good, a wide market as in we were in the U S and we’re in a Europe, uh, with local fulfillment in, uh, in Sweden, Spain and Los Angeles and New York. And, uh, so penetration of the markets where we’re already good situated in, uh, would be the main focus.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (32:50)

How big is your marketing team right now?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (32:54)

Um, five, five people.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (32:57)

And do you imagine having to build that, to grow that out, to accomplish that next step?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (33:03)

Um, yeah, I think it’s, uh, if you want to spend fast, um, I think it’s a, it’s a good idea to work with agencies in specific countries, specific, um, channels to, uh, instead of, uh, hiring it. And then over time, uh, once, once we know what works, then then maybe look into, uh, um, hiring that capacity internally.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (33:33)

That makes sense. Cool. So sounds like you’ve got your next steps kind of planned out and it sounds like you’re still optimistic that this is, this is going somewhere. It sounds like it is, it’s always a good sign when you have customers attention and referrals and all of that. Um, is there any last advice, any, any specific kind of things you’ve been thinking about like, Hey, I need to communicate this to the builders that listen to Built to Stay, um, you know, in order to help them to grow in order to help them think about their product or business in a certain, in a certain way that will be helpful to them,

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (34:13)

advise to be very cautious with whom you work with and read your contracts.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (34:22)

Yeah, definitely. Any, any growth focused advice as well?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (34:29)

It’s, yeah, it’s kind of cliche, but um, it’s, it’s very handy to make something that you really like yourself or really enjoy the product. I’ve been using it myself for the last five years almost daily. So that really gets me excited if, if, if it’s supplier for example, calls and has some sort of improvement, uh, nutritionally for example, that really, um, is a big driver in actually go out and finding things to, uh, to make it better because you’re, if you’re, um, you already use yourself, it’s a very easy to be motivated

 

Bart Bradshaw: (35:08)

and you eat other things besides your own product. Right?

 

Joey Van Koningsbruggen: (35:12)

Yeah. Usually a breakfast and lunches, a plenty shake in the evening I eat whatever.

 

Bart Bradshaw: (35:19)

Okay. Interesting. Cool. Well this is a fascinating story. I’m sorry about the whole partnership fiasco. Uh, it sounds like you got through it with optimism. Um, it sounds like it was long and hard, but uh, that, that early exposure that you got really kind of made it possible for you to keep going and keep building even after that, you’re about a year into the rebuild and it sounds like you’re doing well. It’s, it sounds like there’s a lot of, uh, things to look forward to in the future as well. Yeah, it goes, it goes really well. We’re growing again, so that’s nice. Very cool. Well, awesome to hear the Jimmy Joy story and your story. Joey, we appreciate you being on and uh, yeah, absolutely. Builders. Be sure to visit Built to Stay dot com for exclusive content from this episode as well as links to Jimmy Joy so you can check it out